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Since 1981, Alain Jourgensen has acted as ringleader for arguably the most influential American industrial band, Ministry. With the release of With Sympathy in 1983, Ministry became an instant, rough alternative to British synth-pop acts such as OMD and Depeche Mode. But Jourgensen was not satisfied and later referred to the album as an "abortion of an album." With 1986's Twitch, it became ear-splittingly obvious that a much darker beast lay beneath the synthesizer veneer of Ministry, especially if one listened closely to the album's three-song, 12-minutes-and-15-seconds finale, "Where You At Now?/Crash & Burn/Twitch (Version II)".

Audio Ministry
The Last Sucker

Then in October of 1988, Jourgensen changed industrial music forever with the release of The Land of Rape and Honey. The album's first single "Stigmata" killed off any remaining melodic synth-pop leanings of Ministry, and ushered in a frighteningly prophetic vision of the future of music. Degraded industrial rhythms, distorted metallic guitar, atonal synths, and synthetic vocals that broadcasted antiestablishment and often antilife lyrics drove Ministry's sound straight through the cerebral cortex, causing the mind's eye to see red.

Ministry's metal-tinged industrial music would continue to get more aggressive with subsequent releases, as was most evident on 1989's The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste, as well as 1992's Psalm 69: The Way to Succeed and the Way to Suck Eggs.

Over the past four years, Ministry has continued to release albums that carry on in the tradition of old, but with a clear agenda: to humiliate and protest the 43rd and current President of the United States of America, George Walker Bush.

This month sees the release of Ministry's 11th and final album, The Last Sucker. Alain Jourgensen spoke with MP3.com about Ministry's 26-year history, his plethora of side projects, his record label 13th Planet, and our society's current political nightmare.

MP3.com: Hey, how are you doing this morning? Alain Jourgensen: Ah, me? Well, you know, I'm getting ready for a hard day of work. What does a hard day of work consist of these days? Ah, let's see, getting the corks out of the bottles of wine, getting in the studio and doing kick-ass stuff for like 16 hours, and then pass out at the end of that. And start it all over tomorrow. Sounds like a beautiful job, sir. It's a dream life. It certainly is. One that many of us envy. Ah, cool! Awesome! I got something going then. Awesome! You certainly do. Well, first of all, I just want to say it's truly an honor to speak with you today. Cool. Thanks. And actually, the first time that I saw Ministry perform was in Phoenix, the night of George H. W. Bush's election. Gross. 1989. I tried to block that out of my mind, but he keeps coming back. He's like Freddy fucking Krueger. Well, yeah, and I mean that election fuelled so much of Ministry's work after that. And then, of course, his son being elected has fuelled the past three records. And I'm just curious, does the loss of your--what seems to be your muse--next year have anything to do with your decision to dismantle Ministry? Well, yeah, I think it's part of it. I just think that all things converge. That's a big part of it. You know, there's this joke that we have within our own camp that we make really crappy music when there's Democrats in office. And so in that sense, I guess, he's a muse, but it's just time. We did a really good record this time, and I think it pretty much captures the essence of Ministry over the last 27, 28 years. And I think that I'm so scattered, I have so many projects going on right now that I don't think I'd be able to put the passion into it, into Ministry, as I did on this one, with a really great group of people that worked on it with me. You know, I just think it would be a downhill slope from here.

There's no Bush muse, you know... I wouldn't be able to put the time into it and the kind of passion into it to really make it a good record. And I hate those bands that hang around like 10 years too long after their last decent album or whatever. I think that's kind of pathetic, and I really want to avoid that trap. And I just see that there's nothing else that we could make that would be better or contribute anything to society after this one. So it's the perfect time to stop, because I'm really happy and proud of this record and that's when to go out, man. Do it with some dignity. Well, you mentioned side projects and, I think, anyone who's followed your career specifically knows that side projects have been a huge part of your musical experience. Yeah, I'm systematically over the next two years putting to bed all the side projects too. I'm doing one last go-round of as many things as I can get to, and then put all those to bed too. I mean, within two years, I'm pretty much basically sticking to production and soundtracks, and running the label. So you've got your own sort of exit strategy planned? Yeah, exactly. Thank God somebody does around here. So true. I'm obviously familiar with everything: Acid Horse, Revolting Cocks, Lard ... Pailhead, one of my personal favorites. Yeah, I think there'll probably be another Pailhead. I talked to Ian [MacKaye] a few months ago, and he seems amenable to it. And I think I can probably find time next year. We're in the process right now as we speak. That's what I'm going to be working on today--we're about halfway through the new Revolting Cocks record, called Got Cock? Like the milk commercials, right, and that's the final Cocks record. Although there is a cover [song]--the Cocks are doing a cover record, and Ministry is doing a cover record of all bad '70s covers in our own versions. That one's already done. That should be out in April. The Ministry one is already done. And that one is called Cover Up. And then the Cocks' one is called Cover It Up. So there's those two, plus the last two releases--you know, The Last Sucker and Got Cock?--and then I'll be able to, you know, after the Ministry tour, I'll be able to spend a little bit of time with either Ian [MacKaye] or Jello [Biafra], or both, and try and finish up a Lard and a Pailhead. And I always said the day that you see the Buck Satan and the 666 Shooters album out, that's the end of their career. So that's the very last record I'm going to do. .

So I actually do have an agenda and, like you said, an exit strategy for the next couple of years, because after that--I'm taking this label really seriously. We have some really good stuff coming out on it, and I think it's a good artist forum and a different playing field of what the music industry has become. Because these big labels, they're like a big ship trying to make a turn in open ocean. You can't turn a big ship that fast. And the landscape is changing so fast, and these people just can't turn fast enough, and they've fucked everything up 'cause they're so greedy and just worried about money and product as opposed to doing anything decent... I mean, there's some really great stuff on YouTube, little hits and misses here and there, things that are really cool and things on the Internet you could look up that are great and all that, but there's no real cohesive, cool place to go any more. You know what I'm saying? Agreed, yeah. So that's what this label has become, and since we're kind of light and fast, kind of like the insurgency, you know, guerilla tactics that--we've kind of got a handle on things, and we've got some really great people surrounding us with our label, not only working for us but also being signed to them and all that. Working with some really great artists, and they're going to be able to do it like an insurgency, light and fast. Some of your contemporaries, you know, mostly I'm thinking of Martin Atkins with Invisible Records. You know, people have tried to branch out and do labels in the past and haven't quite been very successful. What do you feel--? Well, I've already had a successful one. I mean, I did Wax Tracks in the '80s, so it's not completely foreign territory to me. Okay. So in that sense, I'll tell you what--here's something for you. This may be controversial, maybe not, but I'll tell you what, Martin Atkins had the right idea. Maybe he should have thought about paying his artist. And then, maybe, if he didn't rip off all the people on his label, it might have actually been cool, 'cause that would be a start... Here's rule Number 1 of running a label: Try and make sure your key artists don't have to have a day job. .

See, that's the only place where Martin went wrong. He had great ideas. He just decided that this paying out thing, you know, wasn't real cool, so. So how do you handle that? Well, I married the most uber-accountant, like OCD chick in the world, and she runs the day-to-day operations. Without her, this label would be Invisible Part II. But with her, it becomes the coolest label in the world. So, without her, I couldn't do it because I handle the production thing and the signing thing and all that other stuff, and the A&R and the development of where we want to go. We talk about everything from artwork to whatever. The artists have input on whatever the fuck they're doing. It's a completely artist-run label. But I'm no good with numbers. So, you know, it's just very fortunate that the powers that be presented me this wonderful lady that has a brain the size of Einstein when it comes to accounting and numbers and being everything like, you know, very responsible and direct and kept in order. So it works. It's a really great partnership. You mentioned that you were branching out to try your own hand at film work and what have you, which I know is not entirely foreign to you. So what can we expect in that realm? Well, in two weeks, what is it now, three weeks, I start on this horror movie that I'm doing the soundtrack for called Wicked Lake. And the main reason I'm doing it, I mean, the script is pretty funny. I mean, it's basically like Revenge of the Chicks Forever, you know. It's kind of like Russ Meyer's Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill! Kill! updated, you know, on steroids meets vampires and witches and shit. It's a pretty funny script, but the main reason I'm doing it is the director is a very good friend of mine, and so we're going to sit down and we're going to score this thing out from top to bottom, because I've worked on films before and done certain scenes and certain songs for certain scenes and scripted out stuff, but this is going to be a top-to-bottom one. So that's kind of exciting for me, and I really, I love this kid Zach Passero that's directing it, really good kid. He's done a couple of our videos before, and this is his first chance at a Hollywood movie, so I'm going to support him all the way on this. Oh, fantastic. I can't wait to hear it. You mentioned earlier something about Ministry not doing as well when we have a Democratic president. Yeah. Do you believe that the next election, because we're probably going to see a democrat in office, if we even have an election, do you think it'll change the corporate-driven government that we've been subjected to? Oh, no, no, not the root cause of all the problems, but it certainly will make nice little cosmetic changes. It'll probably bring the price of iPods down so everyone doesn't riot in the streets, right. And it'll probably get us talking about ethanol, which is a big fucking scam in and of itself. They're still not going to throw any money into wind or solar. And it'll make nice little cosmetic changes that make everyone warm and fuzzy and think, like, "Wow, we don't have those corrupt Republicans in there anymore." But the problem is the Democrats are owned by the same people. So, do I think there's going to be like fundamental change? No. The system is broken. Do I think there's going to be cosmetic changes? Yes, because, you know what, it's cheaper to buy the public out with cheap trinkets than it is to have them riot and actually, you know, like Marie Antoinette found that out. No, unless they want beheadings here on our home soil, it's probably best to give us cheap iPods and some kind of alternative fuel source. So, you know, I see cosmetic changes. I don't see anything really, really changing. No. Right, because the population is probably not ready to see spilled blood for real change. No, but the population is ready for a cheaper iPod. Woo-hoo, you know, it's like whatever, the Nasdaq will go up, technology stocks will go up again because it's not just based on speculators with the fossil fuels, and it'll be a nice, warm, and fuzzy little thing for a while, but, no. Do I expect any real change? Not for a while. I really don't think people are really ready to take that step, especially since they're constantly pacified and distracted by bright, shiny objects. It's like how the white people got Manhattan off the Indians, you know. Yes, tobacco, beads. Exactly. That's basically what we're stuck with here. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely the old "don't look what the right hand is doing." Yeah, bait and switch. Exactly. Bait and switch. Well, one of the samples on The Last Sucker actually illuminates something interesting, which is the tendency for artists to not speak out against governmental corruption and, more specifically, the current administration. But you do not follow that policy. You're obviously very vocal in your protest. Has that garnered any unwanted attention from governmental organizations? Well, thank God, yes. I mean, I'd be kind of like shouting in the forest if I didn't garner that. Yeah, I'm hated by the Right. It's awesome! I welcome it because I don't have to look over my shoulder--I'm not a drug addict any more. I've been clean for five years. I don't do anything that's illegal. I don't drive drunk. I don't have extramarital affairs. I don't do all the things the Republicans do. I pay my taxes, and my taxes are absolutely correct. You know, I'm basically John Q. Citizen that has a voice and a forum, which is cool. So I would be actually disappointed if these hypocrites weren't all over my shit. And how does it make you feel when your contemporaries don't take the same stance and speak out? You know, here's what I feel. I'm not going to start dogging everyone because, you know, look, I don't want the Hollywood dog-and-pony show either. I mean, you know what, I really don't give a fuck what Ben Affleck is going to vote for. And now he's got his own political show or something. I just saw him on something, like, thing the other night... You know, I really don't care. Okay. And that's great. You know what I feel? I feel like, "Do what you're comfortable doing." There are some people that don't sing about that but speak heavily about it, or actually, you know, they actually vote and they actually do things that are part of being a citizen first, musician second. And that's great, and if they don't feel comfortable speaking out, that's fine. .

Hopefully, there'll be a point in time some day in the future where, even just cosmetically, it's a lot more viable or a lot easier or a lot more comfortable for people to speak out. 'Cause right now we've really trampled on this piece of paper called the Constitution, which looks great on paper, but it's the same thing as religion. You know, all this shit looks great on paper, but the problem is that human beings run those policies. And human beings are, I swear, are inherently corrupt. .

So, you take something that in theory works really well, and then it's bastardized by agendas from human greed or whatever you want to call it. So, there's got to be real fundamental change going on here, and that's going to take a long time. This fight is not over, whether it's Democrat, Republican, or warm, fuzzy little cosmetic changes--I mean, look, man, this fight is going to be going on for a long time. .

And a lot of this has to start from within. People have to really look at themselves and say, "What do I really want? Do I want what the advertisers tell me to want?" You know, like a skinny body, flat abs, and the newest in cars and this and that? If that's the consumer society that we've become and that is really what your goal is, I just think that that is what needs to be reexamined before we even start going after the bigwigs at Exxon and Halliburton and all these other things. That's true. I mean, the population has become the last sucker. Yeah. Exactly. Well, one more question would be--you're obviously going to take this beast known as Ministry out on the road for one last hurrah? Yeah, the big, the big hootenanny. Are you excited? Are you going to pull out any special punches for the tour? Well, I know we're bringing Burton Bell from Fear Factory. He's going to be with us the whole tour. He's going to come out and be a guest vocalist on a few songs. And we have a new drummer, Jimmy DeGrasso from Megadeth and Suicidal Tendencies. Awesome! And then Sin from Revolting Cocks replaced Mike Scaccia, who's basically retired after his third kid and just got sick of the whole touring thing. And he's working for Gibson Guitars now. But it's pretty seamless, obviously, on this record. If you've heard this record, Sin picks right up where Mikey left off, so there's not that much change in the guitar department. It's just a new drummer, and the rest of the people are the same. Tommy Victor, Paul Raven, John Bechdel. We're bringing Burton along, and I cannot tell you as of today--in two days, we're making the announcement on our opening act, but trust me, it's going to be really cool. Awesome! So, yeah, this will be a great show to see, and the great thing is that since I know it's the last one, it's kind of more like a celebration. It's really weird. It's kind of like this--I'm not dreading this tour as opposed to other tours. First of all, everyone in the band is really good friends. You know, we're all really good friends. We actually get along and hang out together. And second of all, knowing it's the last one, it's just like, to me, there's no pressure now. It's just great. It's just [that] we're going to have fun. We're going to go out there and play like for two or three hours. We're going to be the fucking Grateful Dead of Industrial, you know. You know, go through all the fucking jukebox hits and let's just have a hootenanny. Well, you've been touring about as long as the Grateful Dead did. I know, man, Jesus, I got the gray hairs to prove it. Well, fuck, man, thanks so much for taking the time to talk to me today. All right, dude. Take care. All right. Bye-bye. Bye.