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Brolin: I want to talk about the new album--it sounds real good. I wanted to ask you, this is your fourth full-length now--how does 20/20 stack up with the previous releases in your catalog--like, how is it different and how is it similar?

Babu: It feels if it's like a taste of--it's somewhere between The Platform and Expansion Team. I think orally-wise and topic-wise, you know, so far as the vibes go. And I think the biggest difference between this one and the last album, Neighborhood Watch, was, we're at the point where we're getting sick of being pigeonholed and being called whatever. People want to call us backpackers, underground, or whatever.

Brolin: Right, right.

Babu: You know, and I think as a group we're on a mission to show people that we were more than that and we can do more than that while still keeping our roots intact. So I think on the last album we were intentionally trying to show that we were songwriters, try to touch on things that maybe we hadn't talked about before. And for this one I think we're really on top of that. I think the way our last album was promoted was wrong. You know what I mean? It wasn't a good representation of what Neighborhood Watch was about and what, as a group, we were doing at that time. So if anything, on this album we were really on a mission to show us doing us 150 percent.

Brolin: Sort of like back-to-the-basics.

Babu: For a lot of things it is, formulas, the guests. Most of the guests we've had are the usual suspects. You know what I mean, the production squad and myself, Evidence, Joey Chavez, and Alchemist...

I think over the years we just learned what we're comfortable doing and we've become more comfortable as people, individually and as a group--we're all just more comfortable in our skin on this one. We're just out there trying to do us, and it's a beautiful thing. And I think we're just taking control of our careers and our lives in so many different ways. From the business to the music to everything, and it's really reflecting that on this album. We all are on the same page and we all feel really good about it. If this album goes triple wood or double platinum it doesn't really matter, we're all really proud of this one, from top to bottom. We felt like this is us doing us and doing it ourselves you know what I mean, so.

Brolin: Cool, right on. Now you guys are one of the only groups, especially on a major label, that has a real DJ as a member of the team. Why do you think that so many acts go without one?

Babu: I don't know. I think over the years there's been a growing distance between emcees and DJs.

Brolin: Right.

Babu: You know, a lot of it too has to do with what's marketable, you know, to the record labels and what's getting pushed out there on the major-label level. You know, it's probably [that] the focus has been put on the emcee, and it's really an emcee's responsibility to say whether or not they need a DJ in the studio or onstage. And you know, I attributed a lot to Ev and Raaka being a part of the hip-hop culture and having that same understanding of the elements. We're not trying to be saviors of hip-hop and be all preachy about it, but on the real, we don't really know any other way we'd perform.

And you know, on top of that, it's a nice a bonus... It's something to write about, it's something to say about us, and it definitely is a big representation about how we roll and how we do things. But it's really up to people and their choices. You know, I would love to hear more songs with scratching on it and we're starting to. But, you know, a lot of times I hear people scratching with their mouths more than anything...and on top of that, sample clearance and that kind of thing, that definitely hurt DJ'ing in general, you know what I mean? But it's something that makes us unique and it's not something that we did contrive. Ever since back in the day, Ev and Raaka knew if they wanted to take their stage show to another level they were going to need a DJ to roll with them all the time.

Brolin: It definitely improves a live show, for sure.

Babu: Definitely.

Brolin: I've seen you play a couple of times and you always rock it live.

Babu: Thank you so much. That goes straight to the heart, man. We put a lot of work into our live show.

Brolin: It's crucial, man.

Babu: It's classic to go see a rap group you like and you see them live and they suck, there's nothing worse than that. I'm not going to say names, but I've done that, I've done that personally a few times. And to be honest with you, to rehearse for a rap show, especially if you write and make your own music, it's really not that hard to put together a decent show and present yourself right and give the people their money's worth, you know what I mean? So for us, we've always taken advantage of it to be a way to prove ourselves to another level. Because you know, when we started coming out, it was a very video-driven industry already. And for us, the only way we could get out was just get out in people's faces, and we had one or two 12-inches' worth of music and two turntables and a mixer and mics, and that's how we've done it. But it takes a little work. Me, Ev, and Rakaa, it took us years to get this chemistry, and it took me years to understand how those guys like things on stage, and it took them years to understand how I like things on stage too. So you know, that's definitely something that's just made our reputation stronger across the board, and even beyond record deals and having a new record out, it's a blessing that Dilated, we could tour year-round.

Brolin: No doubt.

Babu: At any time, call a promoter from anywhere and go do a show... It's a blessing, man. Where some of the biggest rap acts you might know...might be all over the tube, all over the radio, they might have all this great visual perception going on but, you know, you put them in front of a crowd of people and there's no smoke and mirrors, man. You got people four feet in front of you looking you in the eye, you know what I mean--it's do or die. It's a big difference.

Brolin: You've been DJing for a long time, going back like 15 years or so. When did you make the decision to get into production and beat-making as well?

Babu: Most people know me for the battle DJing, obviously, but behind the scenes, I had always been intrigued. Like, my early setup obviously was just--you know, everyone just starts off with two turntables and maybe a tape recorder if you're lucky, you know. I started DJing around '90, so I would say early on--'91, '92--I was just stumbling upon multitrack mix tapes. You know--"How did that DJ do that crazy mix tape up?"--he must have had eight turntables. So I started learning about multitracking, I started learning about sampling, it was a natural progression. From there I started learning about originals, I started learning about digging, like, "Oh, OK, that same drumbeat I hear in all my favorite rap songs is from an old soul record--I didn't know that." "Oh, that's a song called 'Funky Drummer'?"

Brolin: Right.

Babu: It's a natural evolution if you're into records and you're into that classic style of DJing that I was fortunate enough to get a taste of coming up--it was something I think in the back of my head I always knew I wanted to tinker with. Even on one of my first mix tapes people still note me for comprehension you know. There's definitely like three or four just instrumental beats I put on there to show that I made beats, and that was '95. So early on, I didn't know where my DJ battling was going to take me, but I knew somewhere down the line, I wanted to make beats and get rappers to rap on my beats and try to take it there.

Brolin: Was it always the goal to make this your career, or did it start just like a hobby that sort of just blew up from there?

Babu: You know, it's always--the best way I can put it, man, it's just been a big series of stepping stones.

Brolin: OK.

Babu: Things really started to pick up for me when, I met my man Joe from my first DMC battle, my first US DMC battle in New York. I went to this little shop in SoHo called Fat Beats, a little hole in the wall that you can't even see from the street level, and I met my man Joe Abajian, DJ Jab, over there. Come a year later after I get talking on the phone to him, selling him my mix tapes, sending them through the mail to his store...he put me into a co-manager position at Fat Beats. That was about '96.

Babu: That really put me in the epicenter of the LA hip-hop scene, and things ever since then just became more and more stepping stones and more and more doors just kept opening for me. I was just really blessed and fortunate to be in the right place at the right time a lot of times, from getting on the radio and DJing for Dilated or getting to meet promoters and other DJs. It was a whirlwind time, man. I went from someone living in the suburbs on the outskirts of Los Angeles, you know, to like a year and a half, two years later, you know, rubbing shoulders with all the top-notch DJs in LA I'd only heard on the radio or you could see spin at Unity or whatever, you know what I mean? And all of a sudden I'm DJing--you know, all of a sudden I'm in Harlem at Roc Raida's pad with the X-Men.

Brolin: Nice.

Babu: It was a whirlwind time for me. It all happened so fast. To be honest with you, I wish I could go back and I wish I didn't turn down so many opportunities. Because at one point I remember I was literally turning down gigs or turning down studio sessions because I had so much on my plate and I just didn't have any kind of direction. I think I really made a conscious decision to say, music is going to be my full-time gig when Ev and Rakaa approached me for Dilated. That was a big time in my life; I was expecting a child, we had already been doing work together as far as studio and going on the road, but Ev and Rakaa were just, basically got courted by every single label except maybe one or two.

Brolin: Right.

Babu: About to sign a big record deal, they already knew that we had this thing going. I had been to Europe with them on shows and around the country and I had been cutting on the records. That's when I stopped working at Fat Beats, that's when I had to let them know I was going to be a full-time part of this band. I think that's technically the first time when I said you know, yeah I'm going to do this full-time and I'm going to throw caution to the wind and go for it. But at that time, technically I always held a day job. I still had a steady check coming in every two weeks to help me if I didn't have anything else, you know. Ever since then it's been full-time DJ'ing professionally.

Brolin: Do you miss the tournaments at all? Do you miss competing in the DMC and that stuff?

Babu: Yeah I do. I do and I don't, I guess. But at the same time, something I always think now, is like, you know, my life now is a battle. I mean, at the time when I was battling, I have such fond memories of it, living under my mom's roof and having no responsibilities except my shitty job at the gas station and making enough money so I can go see my man Rob One, rest in peace, up at Melrose, and go get some new records up at the end of the week every week. Like, that was my life. You know, my life was in six-month spurts because I knew a battle was coming up in June. So I would be in my room for six, seven hours a day, doing something on the decks. But it was a lot of stress. I didn't realize it because I was so young and hungry and didn't have anything else to live for. It's a full-time thing, you know.

Brolin: No doubt.

Babu: You go out there to compete, you're competing against most likely a bunch of other guys who, this is all they do. Who enters a DJ battle just to enter a DJ battle? No...it's a big part of your f***ing life. So for me I really do miss that feeling. I remember those times when I was breaking fools' necks, man, and I was just--every time I get up at a battle...[it's] "Oh shit, what's this dude going to pull out this time?" You know what I mean? I love that. But at the same time, now I don't think my heart could take the stress. S*** is intense, you know what I'm saying? I don't consider myself a crier but believe me, DJ battling will make you cry. I look at those years, they were like my college years. I definitely paid a lot of dues and I definitely still have dues to pay. Those are the years where I really found what I wanted to do and it really established me and I did a lot of growing as a person at that time and a lot of traveling, getting to see the world. Shoot, man, it was a great time, but you know, I'm fortunate to say I don't think they'll see me in any DJ battles any time soon.

Brolin: All right, right on. Now the past five years or whatever the whole technology has really changed. I mean, first it was CDJs and now you've got Serato and Final Scratch. Do you mess with any of that stuff?

Babu: Oh yeah, I mess with Serato full-time, my studio at home is a Pro Tools studio. Our Dilated studio is a Pro Tools studio. Over the last five, six years, I'll definitely agree with you, technology has made a super jump.

Brolin: Yeah, definitely.

Babu: You can do things at home that like 10, 15 years ago you would have never imagined you could afford to have in your house. It seems like just yesterday we were on ADAT. You seems like yesterday we would have to go to a big studio and have to get an engineer and a big SSL board and 2-inch tape. I mean, we still do that now because we can afford to do that, and still, there's nothing better that sounds like that. But we have our own preproduction studio now. We don't waste all that time at the big studio writing rhymes and searching for cuts. We do it on our own time and we use a big studio now just for the audio fidelity. But it's incredible, I think for a DJ, and for myself, I've made it a part of what I do to stay up on technology constantly. I really feel as if it's part of my duty. And on the road, I seldom go anywhere without my laptop and my hard drive. I make beats on the road with Reason. I've got my little Oxygen 8 keyboard, I definitely have a Serato crack in, everywhere I go to DJ I'm with Serato. I've got my M-Box so I'm mobile with Pro Tools also. I still make my beats on the ARS10, but I've just got to know what I'm missing, man, and I'm glad I know things and just to know what's possible now. You've got to take advantage of it, because they're making things made for what we do.

Brolin: It's going to make things a lot easier.

Babu: Like 15 years ago, people didn't even know what people were trying to do yet--they were just taking stabs at technology. Now you have things like MPC 4000s and you have things like Reason and Logic. I say "the more the merrier," man, I love it. But I'm still fighting for that wax. I make it a point myself to go to the record store once a week and still cop that wax. I still try to mix it up with the wax. I'll bring them back a record and play half computer, half wax.

Brolin: Last year you did the LJs project, and in the past you've done Duck Season Volume I and II, and you did the World on Wheels mix tape. Is it difficult to balance all the outside projects with Dilated, and do you have any other side things that are coming up that we should look out for?

Babu: It's a tough juggle but you know, I'm just growing so accustomed to working like this for the last 10 years. I've never known anything else but to have three or four hustles going on. So if anything, it's just sometimes I wish there were two of me, I wouldn't wish for any less of it. I just wish I could be two places at once sometimes. But--you know, and as far as the future [goes], you know, definitely look out for more ETS. Me and Rakaa are going to be going out rocking clubs and putting out some mix tapes some more. Definitely you're going to see a Duck Season III. Definitely look out for more stuff in the Beat Junkies, the new DVD, more scratch records, more 12-inches, and the album coming out soon. And sooner or later, me and Defari are going to start stacking songs for the next LJs project also.

Brolin: Cool. Right on, man. Well, I look forward to all that stuff. And congratulations on the new album--it sounds real good.

Babu: Oh thanks, man, glad you enjoyed it.

Brolin: Yeah, definitely. Good luck.

Babu: Cool, thanks for the cool interview too.

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